Dopo essere stato costretto a vedere rat rods o brutti rods, mi chiedevo come realemente fossero nel periodo d'oro. Se cio? la ruggine, il primer, i lavori fatti male fossero la norma, come sembrerebbe guardando il panorama odierno, o se le cose fossero ben diverse. Su HAMB si sono fatti la stessa domanda, e qui ci sono le risposte. Dedico questo topic a Funnycar, che si ? trovato recentemente alle prese con il fenomeno Rat Rod.
Questa la domanda iniziale:
SO we live in an era of better than original restorations and recreations.
I have seen thousands of b&w pics of old hot rods and customs and unfortunately, the quality (or lack thereof) of the prints leaves a little to be desired. its really hard to get a true idea of the QUALITY of the paint and bodywork from the earlier days of rodding.
so for the guys that were around in them days, what did they REALLY look like?
anyone have modern pics that are representative of what 40's quality looked like?
its just something that i've always wondered about.
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E qui un po' di risposte:
depends on how far back you go. in the late forties, early fifties, no billet wheels just hubcaps. Shiny paint, mostly hand rubbed lacquer. Looked great, didn't last like modern paints.
Mostly whitewalls, but not all. Customs pretty much all had whitewalls. You would never see a Merc custom with blackwalls.
West coast, the front was low for rods, rear was low for customs, east coast the rear was low for customs, and the rods mostly set level.
Had some beaters but mostly rust was a no-no. Lots of primer, both spotted and full.
Most of what is called a rat rod today would be laughed off the street. You might get into a show with a unfinished, but clean, custom, but no ragged looking cars would be allowed.
Most of the vehicles in the basement at the Autorama wouldn't have been allowed.
That's all I can think of now
But to better answer the question, there were all levels of hot rods and customs back in the day. Those who could afford the best, built the best. Those who could not didn't build crap cuz that's all they could afford, they improved their cars as time and money allowed. Most guys wouldn't take their cars out of the garage untill they were sure the car was up to even a minimum standard.
I don't remember anyone in my area (north Jersey) building a rough piece of crap cuz that's what they wanted. There was no "go to hell if you don't like my car" attitude.
as good as it gets....by today's standards.
But they had, as the top of the line paint, nitrocellulous Laquer....shined as good as or better than anything today but it's life was finite and it required more upkeep than today's modern clearcoat finishes....
Those babys were SHINY!
I grew up in the Chicago area in the Fifties, and there were VERY FEW hot cars around, compared with today. There was a monumental gap between the cars seen in magazines, and the locals. I remember a local show in a New Car dealers service dept.,(a small one compared with today), and the available cars didn't fill the shop.
Paint quality varied all over the map.Enamel jobs were horrible.
As for welding, forget about it ! Lots of stick weld goobers on the frames. Undercoat covered a lot of sins.
If you study most of the early photos of kustoms you see, right off, that panel alignment wasn't anything like todays Riddler winners. The '54 'rockstar' on the cover of Mazumma's copy of Custom Rodder is a case in point. As for the paint, look at some of the 'peel' and dead spots in some of the photos, can't plame it all on the photographer! Some of the early clears and later candies were literaly a ticking timebomb, the reds and yellows being some of the worst in direct sunlight.
Also, some of the 'big named' builders leaned heavy on lead to cover their soft skills as fabricators, but we gota remember most of these vehicles were built quickly, and without a million dollar budget.
When I was first getting into automobiles,there were quite a few cars around that I would term,"daily drivers" in todays jargon.Actually ALL cars except for a very few true show cars were just that.
They seemed to be divided into two camps:those who didn't mind driving their cars as a,"work in progress" and those who wouldn't bring their car out until it was completely finished.
As for the quality of the work,I think the fit and finish on a lot of them was very good.What most lacked was the finished look underneath the vehicle as a lot of people tend to do today.At that time it wasn't considered necessary for anything but a true show vehicle.There were always the exceptions such as Fred Steele's purple Deuce roadster which sported an entirely chromed undercarriage in the mid 1950's and was driven extensively.
One of the most beautiful cars I ever saw was Norm Wallace's 32 Ford roadster that was a Hot Rod Magazine cover car in 1958 and was purchased by my cousin in 1969 with the original Titian Red lacquer paint still very much intact.Although the underside wasn't as detailed as most modern show rods,it was very neat.The workmanship on the car was(and still is)superb.
I know several older metal men(some who are still working)that did fantastic metal fabrication and used very little filler.One in particular(hotrodder3 on here)I watched chop a Model A coupe one weekend and literally use no welding rod(rather fusing the two pieces of metal together),walk a wrinkle in the metal across the rear of the top and then shrink the metal at the end and finish it off with a little pick and file work.No lead.
I watched another do a black lacquer paint job on a car and finish it off by fogging thinner over the surface and having it come out looking like it was rubbed out.And the paint lasted.This guy also uses a door jamb gun better than most people use an air brush.
You also have to bear in mind that there were no where near as many people in the hobby then as there are now.Also most stuff had to be fabricated;there was virtually no store bought stuff.
Back then you could put together a really decent car for $2500;today that wouldn't even buy the materials for a paint job.
Ancora un po' di risposte
I have seen alot of pics of Barris cars being cut apart with air hammers and torches and being stick welded back together and covered in hundreds of pounds of lead. Parisienne and the Dream Truck comes to mind quickly when I think of this. So you be the judge of quality...They seemed to do the best they could with the knowledge and technology of the time. Some of the late 40's era customs seemed pretty rough in the fit and finish area.
Some things to remember about the 50's:
Getting GIRLS was a part of the car scene and the "good girls" wouldn't be caught dead in a junk heep.
In 1964 I worked for $.85 an hour. $1500 was a FURTUNE! Money was still tight , but not as bad as it was in the 50's. People just didn't have disposable incomes.
There were 2 schools of thought I havn't seen expressed here: #1: If it doesn't make it go fast leave it off. and #2: If it doesn't make you go faster CHROME IT!
As I recall them days, the heaps were only run by the "criminal element"....and you didn't comment on their stuff unless you liked getting the crap beaten out of ya.
And last, but not least, what most folks and YOUR PARENTS thought about you MATTERED to most folk. "Rat-Rods" would have been scorned, shunned, and the owner laughed out of town.
I can?t pass as an expert on what was going on in the rest of the country but here in the Midwest (between St. Louis, Missouri and Tulsa Ok., (my turf in the late 50?s / early ?60?s) it was exactly as ?hotrod1940? (the second post) described.
I was eat up with hot rods back then which, to us, meant ?32?s first, ?33 and ?34?s next, all usually full fendered, then V-8 powered A and T roadsters, mostly un-fendered. These were the gold standard. ?35 to ?48 was what you drove while building your rod or jumped from roof to roof on in weed filled salvage yards looking for ?32 parts. Anything past?49 was a ?late model? and driven by old people or rich kids. A custom tended to be a nosed and decked late model. Real customs were only owned by a few rich kids who could afford the work or body and fender guys who did their own work.
In the Midwest, at least , it was not wise to run a highboy anything. In those days you could get a ticket for just running dual pipes and slightly loud mufflers. No fenders were a red flag to "the heat" that you were one of those ?damn hot rodders? whereas with fenders and a hood you could usually pass as just another old car of which there was still some on the road.
Hot Rod and the other car books were the standards that we all admired and mined for ideas to copy. Except for the color, my ?32 roadster (1960 pic below) was a dead copy of the Chuck Price roadster that appeared of the cover of the first large size Rod and Custom right down to the smooth caps and rings and wide whites and it had a full tilt Dupont Diamond Black lacquer paint job on it. You judge!
Here, in the central states, the top cars of the 50s and 60s were about as good as the average cars of today. You didn't have an 800 number to call for anything. You or one of your buddies made what you needed. Acrylic laquer as new zoot as was acrylic enamel. Hundred coat hand rubbed jobs were out of the range of most, but a good laquer job could be done in the driveway. Flaws could be sanded down and rubbed out. Mettalics were fairly new and nearly all of them had a light tiger stripe to them. Only the bucks up cars had much chrome on them. In the early 60s, either AlaKart or the Outlaw was advertised for sale in the back of one of the car mags for sale for like 2500$ so you can imagine what a average joe car sold for.
They were all starting with better cars than we have now. Gas welding was a body shop art that some guys really understood. I had a 40 Chev pickup with a diamond plate floor that was welded up the side of the bed with no filler or warpage. I've seen a guy weld the center of a truck top into the cab without filler at all and no warpage. The basic craftsmanship was out there. Lots of guys, though, were building cars without those skills, as the kids tried to put together the next Hot Rod cover car, learning as they went. Lacquer paint can look great and last, but it's not as ignorable as today's finishes. You can spray it anywhere too, which meant in your barn, driveway, or garage, so paint quality varied greatly. The top cars were very nice, some of the rest were too, and lots were not. Pretty much like it's always been, except everyone was concerned about how it looked at every stage of the build.
Questa ? la discussione originale nel forum HAMB. Da non perdere le foto
[url="http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=379517"]http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=379517[/url]
[quote name='mopar' post='226321' date='17/7/2009, 08:47']Questa ? la discussione originale nel forum HAMB. Da non perdere le foto
[url="http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=379517"]http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=379517[/url][/quote]
Oro colato,grazie.
Prezioso ed importante contributo: grazie Mopar.
Immagini semplicemente spettacolari, mi hanno messo un po' di malinconia: se qualcuno riesce ad inventare la macchina del tempo, avvisatemi!
Piccolo off topic: tra gli utenti c'? un Rich Venza. Chiss?... magari ? un mio lontano parente!
Grazie a mopar per il pensiero!
In sostanza ? ci? che ho sempre pensato (ed ho scritto a David Freiburger dopo aver letto il suo editoriale sul numero di Agosto 2009 di Hot Rod magazine).
Primo: i soldi mancavano allora come oggi: allora, per?, si applicavano ingenuity, craftmanship e trial and error, perch?:
1) - come rimarcato da The H.A.M.B. (sono quasi tutti hot rodder di prima o seconda generazione) il problema erano i rapporti con la Polizia la quale non tollerava jalopies (catorci) su strada e spalleggiava opinione pubblica, genitori e meccanici;
2) - hot rod, street rod e custom cars (confessione di Donald Garlits, classe 1932, dell'anno scorso) erano "principalmente" usati per "rimorchiare le ragazze", soprattutto se l'auto era streetable: nessuna di loro sarebbe salita su un catorcio! (pensate al gusto di vostra nonna o di vostra madre...)
3) - molte fotografie d'epoca sono in bianco e nero, non ? sempre facile capire se si tratta di primer o vernice ed, in ogni caso, ne esistono pochissime di "hot rod jalopies" (sempre catorci): in questi casi si tratta del "primo giro di prova" prima della rifinitura, di esperimenti da testare sul Muroc dry lake o sulla Santa Ana, Lions, Fontana, Pardise Mesa drag strip.
4) - Il Piccadilly di Los Angeles (come molti altri locali frequantati da teenagers) aveva uno scaffale nel retrobottega che raccoglieva i premi assegnati alle auto pi? belle (Wally Parks cita l'episodio nel suo "Drag Racing Today and Yesterday").
Secondo: sono abbastanza attempato da ricordare ci? che scrivevano i magazines americani dei primi anni sessanta: l'ossessione per l'appearing parte dal primo Best Appearing Trophy assegnato nel 1950 all'Oakland...
L'argomento sar? trattato
su American Drive prossimo, ma non lo dico per fare o farmi pubblicit?: ci sar? un box nel quale sono elencate le fonti fotografiche prewar e postwar che escludono (quasi totalmente) improvvisazione ed approssimazione. In particolare (mopar, sei chiaroveggente oppure hai anche tu quei volumi?) "Hot Rods, As They Were" di Donald Montgomery esclude jalopies apprtenenti a hot rodders iscritti a Club (la norma, allora).
Questo testo dimostra che neanche allora era facile circolare con una hotrod o una custom senza finire nel mirino della polizia, e si era considerati comunque strani e magari guardati male dai perbenisti del c###o. Parecchie cose quindi, non erano accettate: ruote scoperte, scarico troppo libero ecc. E personalizzare la propria macchina non era cos? facile, costava allora come adesso (vabbe, forse un p? meno). A parte il fatto che noi, qui in Europa (o forse e meglio dire, in Italia) ci confrontiamo con una burocrazia spaventosa, non mi sembra che c'era molta differenza...
Poi secondo me con una hotrod non e che si rimorchia pi? di tanto oggi (sopratutto se ratrod), con una leadsled bella lucicante forse... A noi non ci interessa se la gente ci guarda strano, per loro capisco che era importantissimo fare buona impressione, col cavolo che uscivano con un'auto in primer.
Meravigliosi! si dovrebbe fare una "piccola guida" da distribuire ai vari raduni e feste, da quello che vedo da que queste parti c'? la malsana idea che anzi i ratrods siano gli unici "originali"!!! ed esposti come fossero l'unico punto di riferimento, attenzione non odio n? i ratrods n? chi li possiede o ama, solo che non mi sembra tanto normale che "la mia macchina deve fare schifo per forza" anzi ne prendo una messa bene e quasi quasi la scartavetro tutta cos? perch? non deve piacere a nessuno..anche perch? leggendo anche il libro
di Funnycar si nota un piccolo particolare che non prendevano dei catorci e ci montavano il motore di un aereo ma prendevano la macchina dei genitori del vicino di casa e si sbarazzavano di tutto quello che non serviva.
Scusate ma cosa intendete per Rat Rod? Tutto ci? che non ? "shiny"? O i mostri abbassati per terra che vanno di moda ora?
Trovo interessante il discorso di com'erano negli anni 50 visto che, in genere i rod old school sono estremamente rari. In Italia gli unici che mi vengono in mente sono quelli visti al Kustom weekend. Anche domenica scorsa, al raduno di cruising, non ne ho visto uno che non avesse concessioni al modernismo
. Mi sembra che tendenzialmente i rod si stiano dirigendo o sul rat rod estremo (brutto, basso e cattivo) o sullo street rod con aria condizionata e servosterzo....
Quelle schifezze basse, arrugginite e mal fatte che van di moda adesso.
[quote name='mopar' post='226380' date='17/7/2009, 17:24']Quelle schifezze basse, arrugginite e mal fatte che van di moda adesso.[/quote]
Ah ecco! In effetti non mi piacciono nemmeno a me. Cmq mi sembra che il fenomeno sia riconducibile alla voglia di stupire a tutti i costi..
Vogliamo aggiungerci anche un po' di mancanza di cultura storica che non guasta mai.....
[quote name='mopar' post='226382' date='17/7/2009, 17:48']Vogliamo aggiungerci anche un po' di mancanza di cultura storica che non guasta mai.....[/quote]
Si ma per quello sai dove inizi e non sai dove ti fermi..... Come dicevo, domenica scorsa, non ho visto un rod che fosse "storico".
E' pieno di gente che fa cose strane.. come mettere cerchi da 20 pollici su auto storiche... ed alla fine han ragione perch? tutti son li che fanno "ohhhh"... Inoltre a a voler essere pignoli, anche delle radiali non ci dovrebbero stare su un'auto storica... chi decide il limite?
[quote name='Sunnybob' post='226383' date='17/7/2009, 18:02'][quote name='mopar' post='226382' date='17/7/2009, 17:48']Vogliamo aggiungerci anche un po' di mancanza di cultura storica che non guasta mai.....[/quote]
Si ma per quello sai dove inizi e non sai dove ti fermi..... Come dicevo, domenica scorsa, non ho visto un rod che fosse "storico".
E' pieno di gente che fa cose strane.. come mettere cerchi da 20 pollici su auto storiche... ed alla fine han ragione perch? tutti son li che fanno "ohhhh"... Inoltre a a voler essere pignoli, anche delle radiali non ci dovrebbero stare su un'auto storica... chi decide il limite?
[/quote]
La decenza..o il buon gusto..
Ad ogni modo a proposito di pneumatici, uno dei rod di domenica scorsa aveva i cerchi da 16 con pneumatici (brutti) tessili all'avantreno e invece due cerchi da 15 con pneumatici radiali al retrotreno.
Incomprensibile!
[quote name='gtotiger' post='226388' date='17/7/2009, 18:12']La decenza..o il buon gusto..[/quote]
D'accordissimo, peccato che siano entrambi opinabili....
Vittorio, quale era? Fuori la macchina....non ho notato questa chicca.
[quote name='mopar' post='226397' date='17/7/2009, 18:32']Vittorio, quale era? Fuori la macchina....non ho notato questa chicca.[/quote]
La Model A rossa scura.. qualcosa tipo 5.60-16 anteriori, e 235/75-15 dietro..non sono sicuro delle misure, ma sicurissimo dei diametri diversi e che fossero di tipo misto..
Quella con il big block ?
@ Sunnny: secondo me, qualche concessione ci pu? anche andare, come le gomme radiali. Certo, non delle scritte bianche su una macchina in stile late fifties, ma delle WWW radiali io le accetto. Specie se le ruote sono coperte. Gi? farei pi? fatica a vederle su un rod fenderless. Diciamo che se uno fa strada, le radiali sono tollerabili. Dal mio punto di vista ( anche se ho tirato via un flattie per mettere uno small block.....), intendiamoci.